Gouging a Souris River Canoe

Q. Hi –
I have enjoyed your webpages and editorial comments immensely. My wife and I used to do a lot of volunteer youth work and part of that was taking kids into Canada canoeing up on the English River Chain (Ignace area). Over the years we have owned everything from heavy aluminum tanks (beat up old Browning canoe) to fast, light kevlar Jensen/Wenonahs, but never a Souris River canoe. We are currently down to an 18 foot, fiberglass Wenonah Sundowner and 17 foot aluminum Grumman. We’ve have also spent some time in floatation equipped whitewater canoes at UMD’s Canoe and Kayak Institute (great program).

In any case, and to stop boring you, do you guys keep a Wilderness 18 in you livery for rent? We like the Wenonah’s except they are miserable to turn if you are doing any river/creek paddling, and frankly they are not that much, if any faster than the old Grumman if they are loaded up for a trip. Not only that, the tall bow on a Sundowner makes a great sail – unfortunately the sail is generally perpendicular to the direction you want to travel. I would like to rent a Wilderness before I buy and am tentatively Planning a pre-Memorial Day trip next year. Can you help us out?

A. Hi-
With the advent of the Quetico 17 in late 1999, Wiliderness 18 sales have moved to the back of a very long bus. Out of 200+ Quetico 17's retailed each year, we sell one Wilderness per year. The compartment sizes (between yoke and thwarts) is identical in length but 1 inch wider in the Q-17. Payload cap. of the Q-17 is 1100 lbs. Payload cap. of the Wilderness is 1200 lbs. The Wilderness is 9" longer which results in an extra 4.5" of length in the bow and stern over the Q-17. In effect, there is a tad less space in a W-18 for gear due to the narrower width. The Q-17 is substantially more stable in all conditions and tends to hold it's ground better than the Wilderness in a cross wind, particularily when paddled empty. The Wilderness needs a load to maximize wetted surface (canoe hull resting upon and supported by water) and the Q-17 handles the same, load or no load. The Q-17 can be paddled solo, the Wilderness cannot - at least not really comfortably. When fishing from the Wilderness, you pay attention to it (in the back of your mind) ALL the time. When fishing from a Q-17, you almost forget that you are in a canoe. In rentals, people who paddled the Wilderness (primarily the bow person) felt comfortable but thought the gunwales where under his/her armpits. The guy in the back felt the canoe to be a bit jittery or tender. People who rent the Q-17 (95% of them) come back saying what an excellent canoe that was and ask how much they cost. In rough water with big whitecaps, the Wilderness 18 will go where angels fear to tread and make it. The Q-17 will be right on it's tail and make it thru every bit as easily. The W-18 cuts through the big waves and the Q-17 rides up and over them. Both canoes will pick up a 250 guy in the front seat - up and over a wave with no water coming over the bow unlike your Sundowner and all other Wenonahs. The Q-17 will be far easier to turn than your Sundowner yet do a pretty nice job of tracking. The W-18 is a bit more agile in maneuvering (over the Q-17) and is more susceptible to wind than the Q-17. The Q-17 is a far superior canoe and much more forgiving. The Q-17 will lean over and still fight your attempt to tip it over. The W-18 will give you a bath if you are not paying atttention. Both canoes are tougher than any other kevlar canoe made today.

To sum up all these comparisons: we quit renting W-18's in favor of Quetico 17's about 5 years ago and have never looked back. I have a lot of canoeing experience and wouldn't give 2 cents for a W-18 but I'd grab a Quetico and run out the door if those were my choices. Now if my choices were between a Wilderness and any other non-Souris River Canoe, I'd grab the W and run out the door. It's still a good canoe, but the Q-17 is better.

Incidentally, I find your speed observations regarding a loaded Sundowner vs. a Grumman very astute. We've know this for years but a lot of Wenonah owners seem to think they are still traveling at light-speed. :-P When you take a racing-intended hull and load it with anything more than two, skinny 150 lb. marathon paddlers and two quarts of gator-aid, it slows down to an inefficient hull speed. We have many paddlers who begin to notice this when paddling a loaded Q-17 alongside a similarly loaded Wenonah MN II. They both travel at about the same speed, but the MN II has no freeboard, can't turn in a crosswind, can't survive rocks and submarines in 3.5 foot whitecaps. The Quetico does the opposite with the same load.

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